Video of the day -- same old same old
This certainly reflects my own experience, which is why I generally no longer bother participating in arguments about whether religion is true or not (its harmful cultural effects are another issue).
To GMS's presentation I have only one thing to add. The fact that most religionists are so utterly mistaken about how atheists think is facilitated by the fact that they don't read what atheists have to say in the atheists' own words, as opposed to versions of it paraphrased or summarized by fellow theists. You cannot understand an opponent's views unless you read what they themselves say -- not just a version of it interpreted by someone on your own side. This is why I disregard the common taboo against linking to right-wing websites. To deal with the opposition, we need to understand them accurately, and reading them in their own words, unfiltered, is the only way to do that.
Update: Since this has turned out to be one of the more popular videos I've posted, here's his channel.
posted by Infidel753 at 3:16 AM
17 Comments:
They're not interested in what we have to say, they merely want to tell us where we're wrong.
Interesting video. And I agree that actually understanding the other side of anything is critically important.
I know it's simplistic. Has to be, I work with kids.
But listening instead of waiting for your turn to talk could change the world.
This is the first video I've seen from this guy, I don't study atheism, I just don't believe.
yeah. that's true. anybody that can possibly believe in zombie jeebus is clearly delusional and not capable of deductive reasoning or critical thinking.
I enjoyed listening in, thanks for posting that video!
Having been raised in a militaristic, conservative, and fundamentalist family culture, I feel lucky to have escaped with a mostly intact rational and liberal mind. But then I also put myself through college (U of O), and put the religious demons (if you will) to rest. It wasn't easy. Consequently, I have no desire to engage with proselytizers or Trump cultists either. I've always believed from early on that arguing with an irrational mind makes oneself irrational. Anyway, this is a good post that reflects much who I am. I discovered your website a few months back and come often. And I really enjoy your Sunday roundups...
I completely agree that understanding the opposition does help in how to deal with them. But sometimes it is very tiresome!
Bluzdude: Then they shouldn't be surprised that they so often fail.
Ami: The problem is that since they think they have the final answers, nothing anyone else says could possibly matter.
Now Am Found: Actually come of them are capable of reasoning -- they just shut it off when it comes to the matters they consider most important. Very strange.
Lon: Thanks for watching!
Toking: Thanks! Glad you've been reading. If you've had to have these arguments with yourself, it must seem even more pointless having them with other people.
Martha: It is indeed tiresome, especially since wingnuts tend to have terrible grammar and proofreading skills. But it's worth reminding oneself that, yes, they are actually like this. And even over there one very occasionally finds an interesting idea.
Know your enemy. Know also the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
Oh, yes, often our enemies are also enemies of each other. The trick is to know how to best exploit that.
I tried to watch the video, but an error occured. I'll try another way.
Your comment interested me: "To deal with the opposition, we need to understand them accurately, and reading them in their own words, unfiltered, is the only way to do that."
I read the far right blogs almost every day to see what they're "thinking." The lastest on the few I follow is that George Soros is the Master of the Universe and is responsible for the caravan of refugees heading toward the U.S. -- he's paying for their food and other comforts, George Soros is also responsible for the close votes in Florida and for interfering with voting in Georgia. George Soros, apparently is like their god, he is omnipotent, is everywhere at all times, and will change America just by existing. Trump, OTOH, is misunderstood, a good man at heart, and the MSM makes him look bad all the time.
Yes. These people exist and they vote.
I find it curious that so many Christians - who are supposed to be overwhelmingly understanding and forgiving - are so very quick to condemn and dismiss atheists and agnostics...
Understanding other points of view is important. Listening is also important.
GREAT video! I rarely watch videos (personal reasons) but decided to take a chance with this one. So glad I did ... he truly nailed it in so many ways! Thanks for sharing.
Exploit being the operative ...
Shaw: In my experience a lot of right-wing blogs are utterly bonkers. There's one I read occasionally which is deep into the QAnon stuff. They're worth reading too, just for reminders that there are such people out there, but I get more insights from "larger" sites like the ones in the "know the enemy" section of my links list.
Jack: I've never found hard-core fundie types to be more understanding and forgiving -- just preachier and more cold-bloodedly judgmental.
Mary: That's my goal. Of course I use "understand" in its strict sense of "comprehend", not "sympathize with".
Nan: Thanks! Glad you found it worthwhile to make an exception. I thought the guy put the case very well.
Thomas: We should be able to manage. By and large, we're smarter than they are.
I've often asserted that political conservatism is a religion. It has all the hallmarks of a cult based on belief over fact, and acceptance of authority over questioning of authority.
For a hoot, imagine the speaker in the video replaced the words "Theist and atheist" with "Conservative and Progressive".
Just as theists BELIEVE they know what an atheist thinks, cons BELIEVE they know what progressives think. They don't, of course. They are indoctrinated, and their minds are closed.
And that is what we know that they can never fathom.
Dave: I notice that the right-wing in the US started getting more and more disconnected from reality as the fundies came to make up a more and more dominant part of it. People who base their religious "thinking" on faith rather than evidence can easily start to0 do the same in areas other than religion, apparently.
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