07 November 2009

Violent religion

Zirgar asks:

I can't help but wonder if the people who are making a deliberate and concerted effort to point out that the Ft. Hood gunman is a Muslim also highlighted the fact that Dr. Tiller's killer is a Christian? Have any of them ever taken the time to condemn the religion of any other of this country's many mass murderers, assuming any of the other killers were religious?

A fair point. I'll bite:

Most murderers, presumably, believe in some religion or other to some extent. In most cases, that religion has very little to do with their motivation for the murders they commit.

Based on available evidence, the Fort Hood gunman was not just a murderer who happened to be Muslim; his Islamic belief -- his jihadist fanaticism -- was the central factor in what motivated him to kill. As I've repeatedly emphasized on this blog, we have seen a lot of violent terrorism by Muslim fanatics against "infidels" over the last couple of decades, and we can expect to see more.

Based on available evidence, the man who killed Dr. Tiller was not just a murderer who happened to be Christian; his Christian belief -- his anti-abortion fanaticism -- was the central factor in what motivated him to kill. As I've repeatedly emphasized on this blog, we have seen a lot of violent terrorism by Christian fanatics against abortion providers and liberals over the last couple of decades, and we can expect to see more.

There's no reason why these points should be taken as conflicting or contrasting; and there's no reason why they shouldn't both be emphasized and highlighted at every opportunity. One can argue about which of the two threats (violent jihadist Islam or violent fundamentalist Christianity) is more dangerous, but ultimately they are similar, not opposite.


Blogger mendip said...


07 November, 2009 06:42  
Blogger Ranch Chimp said...

Interesting Mr.Infidel.As far as all your comment's on fanaticism in religion's actually across the board. I have been reading your post's on this stuff for quite awhile,even though I may have not commented...and other's as well...such as Nazi-Islamo or whatever it's called. You see, there is much I havent seen as far as being able to open my eye's and getting another perspective on these issue's for year's...because I have alway's been around moderate muslim's and christian's alike mostly.I didnt realize the depth of some of this in other word's before reading post's by you and other's...who look at the entire picture...not just what I see in my community.

07 November, 2009 06:48  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The anology between Islam fundamentalism and Christian fanaticism leaves out one very important component....what is taught in our Holy Books. No where is it taught in the Bible that we are to kill people who disagree with Christianity. Before anyone jumps on the "Crusades" bandwagon, let me further point out this truth. There are those who call themselves "Christian" but who are not. A true Christian, a Child of God, would no more kill someone then they would even think about it. Whereas, the Islam religion teaches that they are to kill "the infidel" or enslave him if he does not convert. Big difference all the way around.


07 November, 2009 07:48  
Blogger Infidel753 said...

Well, I'm interested in practice, not theory. To an abortion-clinic worker being gunned down or a judge who needs police protection because of death threats after ruling against teaching creationist idiocy in public-school science classes, the differences between the Bible and Koran are kind of academic.

In any case, the Old Testament is awash in stories of mass murder being committed by the pious or commanded by God. All of that is still part of the Bible and any Christian who chooses to use violence can find plenty there to justify it. One can quarrel with the interpretation, but millions of Christians through history have found war, persecution, and horrific violence to be perfectly consistent with Christianity. That interpretation is not at all outside the mainstream.

As for the argument "Christianity is not evil, therefore any Christian who does anything evil isn't a 'real' Christian, therefore Christianity is not evil", I'm not buying it. Not only is it circular reasoning, it's similar to the claim by some Communists that "true" Communism didn't fail in the twentieth century because what we saw in the USSR and so forth wasn't "true" Communism. Such an arbitrary re-definition of "Christian" excludes millions of people who were and are accepted as Christians, by Christendom in general and the world in general.

As I've discussed in earlier postings, the calls to violence and murder in the Koran and Hadîth are far more explicit, and the Koran itself is far less ambiguous or susceptible to interpretation than the Bible is, so Islam is more intrinsically dangerous. That does not make Christianity innocuous.

07 November, 2009 08:52  
Blogger Ranch Chimp said...

Interesting statement here from ANON-Lonni ... as far as ...islam religion teaching that they are to kill the infidel or enslave him if he does not convert and about the big difference.Geeeez ... make's me thrilled to I live in America!I mean...I'm not sure which is worse...getting killed or a life of enslavement until I convert ...both sound pretty rough to me.Yes I realize that the comparison is islam vs.christianity, but their both a little too rough for me...beside's I never gave a shit about what god think's one way or another as far as the situation on earth...I mean I live in the flesh on earth.But that's just me.

07 November, 2009 10:29  
Blogger Infidel753 said...

It's quite close to the reality, unfortunately. According to Islamic law, people classified as ahl al-kitâb (Jews, Christians, and one other category whose intepretation is ambiguous) are to be offered three choices: conversion to Islam, a form of second-class citizenship called dhimmah, or death. All others -- pagans, atheists, whatever -- get only the options of conversion to Islam or death.

Most modern Islamic countries have at least somewhat secular governments and do not apply this, but it's what Islamic law says.

Note also the law requiring death for any Muslim who leaves Islam (converts to another religion or becomes an atheist). Muslims who leave Islam even nowadays often have to leave their home countries for fear of murder.

Christianity doesn't have hard-and-fast rules for such things, probably because, unlike Islam, it did not control actual political authority during its early formative centuries.

07 November, 2009 10:49  
Blogger TomCat said...

In practice, once Christianity found itself in a position of political power, did have a solution for those who left the church: the inquisition.

07 November, 2009 11:57  

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