04 August 2023

The roots of religious bullying

Atheist Revolution blog has a post up about how hard-core Christians in the US strive to enforce their own religion's taboo system on the whole society, including on non-believers.  Examples of this would include the laws against homosexuality and interracial marriage which existed until fairly recently, and the current efforts to ban abortion.  We are so used to dealing with this problem that it is easy to forget how strange it is.  As the post points out, if you dislike red cars for whatever reason, you are free to not buy or drive a red car, but trying to stop everybody else from having red cars would be so weird and intrusive that it would not even occur to most people.  An individual's personal preferences are relevant only to that individual.  Why do hard-core Christians try so doggedly to force everyone to live by theirs?

Oddly enough, the Bible itself provides a rationale that could serve to justify such bullying, but modern-day Christians never use it.  The Old Testament is full of cases where God destroyed a whole town or tribe (or, in the case of the flood of Noah, the whole world) because "sin" was becoming widespread.  If you believe that God will destroy your entire city once the number of red cars being driven there exceeds a certain hard-to-define limit, you might indeed be justified in banning them for everybody, to save the whole city.  But again, Christians today never seem to bring up this point.  Perhaps it makes God sound too obviously irrational and thuggish.

They do sometimes argue that their taboo system represents objective morality, and that saying "if you don't want to drive a red car, don't drive one, but don't stop me from driving one" is just the same as saying "if you don't want to commit murder, don't do it, but don't stop me from doing it".  But this is a bad argument since it merely highlights the difference between taboo and morality -- murder causes objective harm to someone other than the perpetrator, whereas driving a red car does not.

In reality, of course, the true reasons for behavior are often different from the stated ones.  An obsession with dominance and status, and with asserting dominance over others, is characteristic of members (especially males) of almost all primate species, and humans are just one more primate species.  We can see this throughout human history, as conquerors or socially dominant groups have told subjugated groups, you must salute our flag instead of your own, you must speak our language instead of your own, you must worship our gods instead of your own.  It's a way of asserting dominance by forcing others to explicitly express their submission.  As a dominant group in the West for centuries, Christians have been accustomed to behaving this way without getting any push-back.  Now that they are losing that status with the rise of secular government and the spread of non-belief, the hard-line believers feel the same kind of agitation and distress and anger as a dominant chimpanzee who feels his status within the group eroding.  Hence the growing desire to force non-Christians to perform symbolic expressions of submission by making us submit to their taboos -- the more arbitrary the better, since there are reasons for banning murder that have nothing to do with religion, but forcing non-Christians to submit to the taboo on, say, abortion clearly means they are being subordinated to Christian dogma specifically.

Christians are not the only ones who do this, of course.  The bizarre outbursts of rage and violence by Muslims against non-Muslims who draw cartoons of Muhammad reflect their alarm at realizing that the unquestioned dominance Islam has long held in the Islamic world does not apply everywhere or to everyone.  The unbelievers must be forced to express submission by conforming to the Islamic taboo.  On the other hand, some religions don't produce such behavior -- I've never heard of American Jews demanding that civil law ban eating pork for everyone in the US, for example.  It seems to be a matter of believers being accustomed to holding a dominant position.  Christianity was overwhelmingly dominant in the US for most of its history, a position which has been eroding for only a few decades now.  Muslims in Europe are mostly immigrants, or descendants of immigrants a few decades ago, from Islamic countries where their religion held similar sway.

Non-believers and secular-minded Christians should keep in mind that this kind of religious bullying has much in common with the screeching and stomping of a chimpanzee trying to intimidate other chimpanzees.  That's not to minimize the problem -- apes are dangerous, especially when enraged by a perceived challenge -- but it does help to put it in perspective.

8 Comments:

Blogger NickM said...

I think there tends to be a huge difference between proslytising and non-proslytising religions.

But that's another issue...

My take on the rise of fundementalism in the USA is that apart from the usual stuff about it offering "hope" to the poor and ignorant and a vague feeling that societies can't function long-term without a unifying dogma shaping them is this...

You know Pascal's Wager? Invert it. What if this life is all we get? Then going along with fundamentalsit doctrine wastes an awful lot of that most precious of resources - that one life. It costs money because mega churches don't build themselves and megalomaniacs need their silk suits and Ferraris*? Listening to tedious sermons takes time you could be enjoying yourself. And then there is sex and drugs and rock and roll. All that fun you could be having and perhaps the pleasures of looking back on a moderately "misspent" youth. There is no "fun" in "fundamentalism", only "mentalism". Now if you give up on the Earthly pleasures for an eternity with the choir invisible and it's just not true and you have even the slightest of doubts that will nag at you and create a feeling of envy of those folks enjoying themselves in the here and now. You could easily get to resenting that. So if you can't have it then neither can anyone! Problem solved!

Short version. It's perhaps not so much you think red cars are evil but you really want one but your creed says, "No!" so then you decide they should all be banned.


*Things like "Prosperity Theology" only work if the head honcho is minted (or seems so). Look at Trump (who may well not be if they ever get proper accounts done of His Empire of Dirt). He's like the ultimate example. Having said that Trump's appeal to the fundies is a mystery to me in that he hardly seems to have lived by any moral code other than Trumpism. I suppose his string of sexual conquests are seen as akin to the concubines of Old Testament kings or something.

Oh, just occurred to me. Obviously the tax exempt status of churches etc saves them a load but might it also be the case that it avoids their accounts being externally scrutinised. Could that be a factor? Could it be they don't want folk to know that the Pastor's new swimming pool was paid for by the money raised ostensibly towards funding Sunday Schools in Botswana? I mean if you got you hand in the collection box do you really want the IRS asking questions? Furthermore could the appeal Trump has to the fundamentalist leaders stem from the idea neither want to be audited? Basically a common purpose.

04 August, 2023 04:07  
Blogger Jack said...

I think you are right about this being a case where the true reasons for a behavior may differ from the ones we hear about. I suppose that dominance is something one gets used to when it lasts long enough. Having that privilege likely creates distorted perceptions that aren't seen until someone steps outside of it.

I know plenty of conservative Christians who rightly condemn religious bullying by Muslims. They don't seem to recognize that they are doing similar things. The so-called "blue laws" prohibiting all sorts of things on Sundays are an interesting example. It rarely occurs to them that some people don't go to church and might find this inconvenient.

05 August, 2023 07:34  
Blogger Infidel753 said...

NickM: It would be interesting to see if religions change their proselytizing vs non-proselytizing habits after their dominance status has changed long enough -- is orthodox Judaism adopting the same kind of bullying behavior within Israel as hard-line Christianity in the US, for example?

I'm sure it's true that part of the reason some religionists are so hostile to atheists is that atheists make them confront doubts they would prefer not to admit they have. Aside from renouncing Earthly pleasures for what will turn out to be no reward, they are made to confront the scary idea that maybe death really is the end. It's a serious psychological issue. I don't for a moment believe the fashionable atheist claim to have no fear of death. Most animals have an innate fear of death -- it's what you would expect natural selection to do -- and an atheist whose life is in immediate danger will fight like hell to survive, just as anyone else would. But religionists who have convinced themselves there's an afterlife don't even have the basic advantage of having come to terms with the fact that death lies ahead. They're used to simply evading the fear.

Trump makes very little pretense of being Christian, or moral in any sense. What he offers the hard-line Christians is power -- the opportunity to feel dominant over their opponents. It's very much in line with the primate dominance explanation I'm talking about here.

Jack: There's a saying that equality feels like oppression when you're used to being in a superior position. That must apply all the more when you believe that superior position is justified by a deity's favor.

Blue laws are another example of pure dominance assertion. If Christians weren't interested in dominance, they wouldn't care if businesses were open on Sundays. They themselves would simply go to church and ignore the open businesses, and wouldn't care that non-believers were still doing their shopping that day. But the primate dominance instinct wants to force everyone else to display submission by offering a visible sign of bowing to the dominant group's rituals and taboos.

05 August, 2023 08:26  
Blogger NickM said...

I think there is a distinction between the fear of death in the abstract and the fear of dying like right here, right now. The first is generally accepted and not worried about but the second isn't quite like that. The first is something people can be sanguine about. The second less so. Everyone accepts they aren't immortal - in this life anyway - but when that Rhino charges at you... Obviously, I'm excluding the nucking futters.

05 August, 2023 12:06  
Blogger Dave Dubya said...

Yes, Trump doesn't need to be "Christian", yet is still revered as a prophet in evangelical/conservative religious circles. He's the Holy One who can tell no lie, sent by Jesus to save America. None dare question this.

He has literally been assimilated into their religious beliefs. No wonder the koolade is gulped so eagerly.

05 August, 2023 14:45  
Blogger Mary Kirkland said...

It's just crazy to me that people still in this day and age bully other people because they don't believe the same religious things that they do and therefore they must be wrong for not believing. It's just crazy to me that that still goes on.

05 August, 2023 15:59  
Blogger SickoRicko said...

Terrific essay!

05 August, 2023 20:59  
Blogger Infidel753 said...

NickM: I don't think it's a meaningful distinction in the context of the point I'm making.

Dave: They support him because he gives them what they want, not because he behaves like one of them.

Mary K: Unfortunately the people who do that are mentally stuck in an earlier time. But lots of bullying and trying to grind down people who are different still goes on. It's just that people who do it for religious reasons can more easily feel self righteous about it.

Ricko: Thanks!

06 August, 2023 02:55  

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