Darkness lifting
In this posting a month ago I expressed the hope that over time the Islamic threat will be resolved by Muslims abandoning Islam in growing numbers, first in Europe where they have been directly exposed to non-Islamic values and civilization (and where many have already left Islam, especially in Russia), and eventually in the Islamic world itself.
In Britain there are already enough people who have not only left Islam, but are willing to take a public stand against it, that they have their own organization, the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain. From their manifesto:
We, non-believers, atheists, and ex-Muslims, are establishing or joining the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain to insist that no one be pigeonholed as Muslims with culturally relative rights nor deemed to be represented by regressive Islamic organisations and 'Muslim community leaders'.
Those of us who have come forward with our names and photo- graphs represent countless others who are unable or unwilling to do so because of the threats faced by those considered 'apostates' -- punishable by death in countries under Islamic law.
By doing so, we are breaking the taboo that comes with renoun- cing Islam but also taking a stand for reason, universal rights and values, and secularism.
Whilst religion or the lack thereof is a private affair, the increasing intervention of and devastation caused by religion and particularly Islam in contemporary society has necessitated our public renunciation and declaration. We represent a majority in Europe and a vast secular and humanist protest movement in countries like Iran.
Apparently there is also a similar organization in Germany. The bluntness and courage of this declaration, like that of other ex- Muslims such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Ibn Warraq, stands in sharp contrast to the timidity and vacillation of so many native western European political and religious "leaders", who often seem afraid to stand up for freedom and secularism and civilization lest they offend the barbarians who hate and despise them.
Found via the Citizen Warrior Heroes blog; see also this rousing critique of Islam by yet another ex-Muslim, the Syrian-American psychologist Wafa Sultan.
In Britain there are already enough people who have not only left Islam, but are willing to take a public stand against it, that they have their own organization, the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain. From their manifesto:
We, non-believers, atheists, and ex-Muslims, are establishing or joining the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain to insist that no one be pigeonholed as Muslims with culturally relative rights nor deemed to be represented by regressive Islamic organisations and 'Muslim community leaders'.
Those of us who have come forward with our names and photo- graphs represent countless others who are unable or unwilling to do so because of the threats faced by those considered 'apostates' -- punishable by death in countries under Islamic law.
By doing so, we are breaking the taboo that comes with renoun- cing Islam but also taking a stand for reason, universal rights and values, and secularism.
Whilst religion or the lack thereof is a private affair, the increasing intervention of and devastation caused by religion and particularly Islam in contemporary society has necessitated our public renunciation and declaration. We represent a majority in Europe and a vast secular and humanist protest movement in countries like Iran.
Apparently there is also a similar organization in Germany. The bluntness and courage of this declaration, like that of other ex- Muslims such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Ibn Warraq, stands in sharp contrast to the timidity and vacillation of so many native western European political and religious "leaders", who often seem afraid to stand up for freedom and secularism and civilization lest they offend the barbarians who hate and despise them.
Found via the Citizen Warrior Heroes blog; see also this rousing critique of Islam by yet another ex-Muslim, the Syrian-American psychologist Wafa Sultan.
posted by Infidel753 at 9:13 AM
9 Comments:
did you know this-http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/25/world/asia/25indonesia.html?_r=1&ref=asia
I was in Indonesia few days ago for holidays around 10 days and I saw a different islam in this part of the world - not many women are veiled and even veiled women shake hands with me and hug men !
It's always encouraging when the most dangerous elements suffer a setback; I think the same would happen in Iran if it were able to hold genuine free elections. Indonesia is unusual in that it was Islamized by missionaries, not by conquest, and relatively recently; one can hope that the resulting adherence to Islam is more superficial than elsewhere.
In the long run, though, as I explained here, "moderate Islam" is not a solution to the problem posed by Islam because it is a contradiction in terms and an inherently-dishonest concept. What the Western media call "extremist" or "radical" Islam is the only real Islam; the Islamic sacred texts make this clear, and there is no such ambiguity allowing for more moderate "interpretations" as exists in the case of, for example, Christianity. As long as populations self-identify as Muslim at all, they will always be vulnerable to the call of hard-liners who insist that Taliban-style Islam is the only true Islam compatible with the Koran and Hadîth -- because those hard-liners quite simply have the facts on their side. De-Islamization is the only real solution.
I agree with you Mr.Infidel about as long as folk's identify with Islam..you'll have these pedator's like Taliban, or the rest of those cult's. At the same time... I think alot of muslim's are getting a little sick and tired of being a little sick and tired. These predator's are keeping them chained down. No person regardless of how religious they are (as long as they feel human)likes this oppression that these group's are shelling out. I mean c'mon .. you celebrate a wedding and have a lil music and you get slaughtered for it!!?**! Or all music banned on those long bus rides, or all the public ass whipping of women,humiliation,and the rest. Maybe some thing's in fetish/roleplay...but this is not any fun for anyone...except the sadist perpetrator's. The leader's of these cult's...have nothing to offer...and can only inflict death and torture...that's the bottom line. In other word's... a good religious leader that really know's how to sell a package...dont need such tactic's... if their good...they can have the masses eating out of their hand's on their own. These folk's will NEVER be able to win the heart's and mind's of the majority of muslim's and will get bombed and killed themselves by the opposition muslim's. Folk's naturally want peace,prosperity,hope,decent living condition's and the rest... folk's dont want this crap. And folk's like us by keeping insulting them and riding them as a whole...play's into the hand's of these group's as well, because they can capitalize off it with the talk of disrespect,etc. I know a few muslim's that are immigrant's and even have some values that are quite different then we have...but their stiil human in their need's and want's. This strongarm crap that we see going on abroad...will never work.
When reading what Mr.Prash had to say... I got a laugh ... because I thought to myself...."..any good lookin muslim gal that would like to come up to me and give me a hug... go right ahead!...." But I dont need the fashion apparel ... I'm a simple man...jean's and a top is fine with me. :)
Thank You Mr.Infidel....
That is encouraging! It will be fascinating to watch what happens.
That last paragraph just gives me chills. :)
Whilst religion or the lack thereof is a private affair, the increasing intervention of and devastation caused by religion and particularly Islam in contemporary society has necessitated our public renunciation and declaration. We represent a majority in Europe and a vast secular and humanist protest movement in countries like Iran.Go Secular Humanism!!!!
RC -- I'm not saying there are no moderate Muslims -- obviously there are. I'm just saying that in the long run it can't last because that isn't real Islam. Ultimately one has to jump off the fence in one direction or the other, into real Islam or out of Islam altogether.
Rita -- I'm convinced that Iran will be full of surprises if and when it ever manages to get rid of the current regime.
Interesting term used here... as far as "real islam" is concerned. Because I have wondered the same about christianity actually> If most of what we see is "real" christianity...it certainly dont look like it when I read their bible.Yet.... they call it christianity and claim their true christian's.
Some of this islam remind's me only of christianity several hundred year's ago....as I said before...and it makes sense to me considering the comparison in time as far as when they originated and took off(christianity being older) like christianity...I think it will simply change over time, to the need's of what the "peoples" want's... every big mainstream group changes through the era's, and get's a little more looser than the previous. All this terror I believe will continue for quite awhile... but it too will fade away...as well as the "real" islam or "real" anything else. When religious movement's fail to provide what is expected...they simply fall. The Vatican is a perfect example...sure they have some "core/base" fundamental's, but they have also changed quite a bit just in my lifetime to try to stay somewhat up with the times. Even gay/lesbian preacher's were unheard of year's ago...I was just reading in Dallas Morning New's about some controversy that was going on with some mainstream churches here...If I recall correctly...it may have been Episcopal(cant swear to the denomination off hand..there's so goddamn many these day's it's silly!)But they agreed here across the board to have gay/lesbian preacher's for instance. The way I see it... is in the near future...even many mainstream churches across America will have SS marriages, and just as common as any other marriage, and nothing will be thought of it.When one doesnt keep up with the flow and want's/need's ... they loose flock's and revenue's in the longrun... after all...it's all entertainment to a degree...and also get's rated, as well as good sales and marketing.
Thank You Sir......
Some of this islam remind's me only of christianity several hundred year's ago....as I said before...and it makes sense to me considering the comparison in time as far as when they originated and took off(christianity being older) like christianity...
The idea that Islam is equivalent to Christianity at an earlier stage of development is a common one, but as I've explained before, it's wrong. The Bible is a random collection of a huge amount of incoherent gibberish spanning a vast range of time; it's so nebulous, befuddled, and full of contradiction that it can be used to support an almost infinite range of interpretations. You can advocate or condemn almost any kind of behavior and claim there's some basis in the Bible for what you're saying. The Islamic sacred texts are not like that. They leave no ambiguity about what real Islam is. Moderate or tolerant Islamic practice could develop over time -- it has done so at various times and places, in fact -- but it can't last because, unlike with Christianity, it unambiguously conflicts with the source texts. In the long run the only options are Taliban-style Islam or non-Islam.
Or maybe a new and improved version of the quran? :)
Thanx Guy...........
Actually, that's another interesting difference. There are many different versions of the Bible, of course, in many different languages. But there's only one version of the Koran. Muslims would never accept a changed version of the Koran as being legitimate. Also, the Koran has been translated into other languages (from Arabic), but only the one Arabic version actually is the Koran. Any other version is just considered a paraphrase and not the official Koran.
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